i'm not sure where this thought came from (believers will no doubt say 'from satan'), but it has started to coalesce in my brain lately.
i've often referred to the bible and argued from it to debunk jw beliefs, and still tried to consider it as a great piece of literature at the very least.
but as my wife was listening to the meeting on a loud speaker phone at home this weekend, i just had this thought.
The creators of the Torah considered the idea of no God and they concluded that idea to be false, which is why the document exists in the first place.
Sab, I'd call this an argument from ignorance. Replace God with "Allah" and Torah wth "Quran" and see how the argument applies just as well.
We can't explain things, therefore God..
i'm not sure where this thought came from (believers will no doubt say 'from satan'), but it has started to coalesce in my brain lately.
i've often referred to the bible and argued from it to debunk jw beliefs, and still tried to consider it as a great piece of literature at the very least.
but as my wife was listening to the meeting on a loud speaker phone at home this weekend, i just had this thought.
sd-7, congratulations!
I see that you have come to the realization where the burden of proof lays. And it ain't with the disbelievers.
From a personal perspective, once I relized that it is not my job to disprove god, it is the job of believers (or even god him/herself) to offer proof, there was an incredible clarity of thought and understanding...
Does it feel similar to discovering TTATT, I wonder?
so i moved to another hall to better help me fade.
so far it's been great although it is a very long and annoying process!
so i'm very good friends with the coordinating elder in the new hall since we've known each other for years and so instead of mailing them to the other hall he decided to pass them on to my dad so he could give them to me and for me to give them to the other hall.
Could you perhaps "misplace" them during your move?
Put them in that box that will fall out of the back of the moving truck. You know, the box that also had some family photos you are really upset about losing (that's some sob story for the COBOE).
That is if you physically move to a new place or, maybe if you decide to put some things in storage for a while.....
can you, awsome peoples, please help me with grasping when and how did sin get introduced in the picture?.
i am not talking adam/eve and the serpent thingy.. i am going way back, following the chain of events.. seems to me that the very original sin was satan's rebellion against god.. if so, how did satan get this idea in a first place, how was he even able to have the concept of disobedience.... .
thanks in advance to all contributors..
Thank you all.
Leo, I had no idea there were "other concepts" of how sin originated. Have some reading to do now with your (always pointed and helpful) references.
can you, awsome peoples, please help me with grasping when and how did sin get introduced in the picture?.
i am not talking adam/eve and the serpent thingy.. i am going way back, following the chain of events.. seems to me that the very original sin was satan's rebellion against god.. if so, how did satan get this idea in a first place, how was he even able to have the concept of disobedience.... .
thanks in advance to all contributors..
Well, this is what I am trying to wrap my head around.
Evil doesn't seem to just creep in from outer space (or maybe it does ) if there is no PROVISION for it in a first place. I agree that satan/serpent is just one of the factors for A&E sinning.
Which begs the question: what was the purpose of evil (disobedience, imperfection - call it what you want) in a perfect universe, created by a perfect thing, filled with other perfect things. And the realization that evil didn't just come out of nowhere.
Perfection does not create imperfection, as by its very own definition, there is not even the slightest bit of imperfection in perfection.
Ask a creationist and they will tell you that "something doesn't come out of nothing".
Going back to God allmighty (since he is the alpha and omega, to use a well known definition), imperfection has to be an intrinsic part of him, or else it wouldn't exist.
You can't have it both ways.
can you, awsome peoples, please help me with grasping when and how did sin get introduced in the picture?.
i am not talking adam/eve and the serpent thingy.. i am going way back, following the chain of events.. seems to me that the very original sin was satan's rebellion against god.. if so, how did satan get this idea in a first place, how was he even able to have the concept of disobedience.... .
thanks in advance to all contributors..
James Woods, thank you for better articulating my question.
Leo, the reverse chain of events (notwithstanding the merits of their accutracy or validity) is:
Adam/Eve sinned--> the serpent/satan deceived Eve--> satan must have known good from bad-->satan is the once perfect angel who rebelled against god--> in making the perfect angel(satan), god must have known or allowed for evil--> why was evil created or allowed for in a first place?
The buck seems to stop with the creator.
Am I wrong?
peace to you!
i wanted to get some thoughts out there on this subject, because there are so many people who look to the bible as the image of god.
to the point that they do not look to christ at all, but rather they look to the law or to moses or to the ot as the image of god... over... christ.
Yan, I wasn't attempting to prove the existene of God. Only highlighting the differences between the image being Christ... or the bible.
Hmm, no. You can't get to the latter, if the former is untrue....
It is only one more step, Tammy. The bible is the word of god and so on....
peace to you!
i wanted to get some thoughts out there on this subject, because there are so many people who look to the bible as the image of god.
to the point that they do not look to christ at all, but rather they look to the law or to moses or to the ot as the image of god... over... christ.
Tammy,
What if it was, say, Allah speaking to you, pretending to be Jesus. Or Vishnu, pretending to be Allah, who in turn was pretending to be Jesus.... Could you, the imperfect human being, be wrong?
See, with multitude of omnipotent dieties out there things can get really dicey. The mere fact that you reject all of them, except for your chosen one, gives no credence of its existence, or of the non-existense of the others whatsoever.
just started to research the who's who of gods!.
really helps to not take any of this 'god' power seriously!.
http://home.swbell.net/dndylion/paganreligions.html, roots of christianity:.
F@#k no!
from time to time there are things said by the brother giving the public talk or conducting the watchtower that just make my jaw drop.
here are two from sunday.
"we are 98 years into the last days"
We are "98 years into the last days" is almost ridiculous as "we are 77 months into the last seconds"
Are these people on crack?
